Car Purchase Research
From jeske@chat.net Thu Feb 5 00:28:55 1998
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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:28:49 -0800
From: David Jeske
To: Steve Richey
Subject: Re: Power Window switch orientation in '98 Legacy a nusiance?
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In-Reply-To: ; from Steve Richey on Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 06:31:56PM -0700
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On Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 06:31:56PM -0700, Steve Richey wrote:
> Assuming my '98 Legacy Outback switches are the same, I totally agree
> with you. Very unergonomic design (like a lot of other controls), plus
> only one of the switches is lighted! My old Saab 900 was perfect in this
> regard (as were all of the other controls, which could be adjusted
> without even looking). The Saab had them between the front seat backs,
> all 4 perfectly positioned, I could raise or lower all 4 windows
> simultaneously without even looking.
I can't say I ever went for that "switches between the seats" or "in the center
of the front console" thing that Saab was into. However, I'm sure it was
definetly easier to operate without looking. I think my old '88 Accord was just
about perfect with them fairly far forward and facing upwards on the driver
armrest. Today's imports are usually doing those "up/down push/pull" switches on
the armrests. The current Accords seemed a little too rearward for me and my long
arms.
I decided after a second look that I didn't mind so much the location of the
window switches on the Legacy. (it's the same as your outback) It's definetly not
easy to operate more than two of them at a time, and I consider it non-optimal
that you basically have to invert your whole hand to change directions, but it's
not terrible. As one person mentioned to me, it removes any confusions
passengers often have about "which way is up" as often happens with horizontally
mounted switches. (i.e. the driver will get used to anything)
> Add that to the design improvement list of floor mats, cup holder,
> frameless windows, etc., and you start wondering why you bought one!
I don't mind the frameless windows. I had so many problems with the doors of my
88 accord taking on water as the car aged that I'm actually glad they are that
way. I had big rust holes where the upper front "arm" of the door met the main
part of the door panel. It was from water getting into the door up where the top
of the door frame met the car.
The front cup-holder could be better, but without tons of dash space, it could
be worse. It's certainly much better than my friends Toyota Celica Convertable's
cupholder, which completely blocks the cd player slot when it's in use. There
is an add-on from Husco for the center arm rest which adds padding, about 2" of
height, 2-4" more forward support, and cupholders which slide foward from the
"new" armrest. (http://www.husco.com, look at the Trac/Pad)
What is it that you don't like about the floor mats?
I think my list of serious gripes about the car is:
- end of front passenger footwell sharply sloped upward.
(it makes me feel closterphobic, fortunatly I sit in the drivers seat
which dosn't have this problem)
- When you remove a CD from the factory "single" CD player, it immediately
starts playing the radio, which causes the power antenna to raise, when
you put one in, it lowers the antenna. So every time I change CDs it wants
to raise and then lower the radio antenna.
Solution: I turn off the stereo, push the eject CD button, put in the new
one, and then turn the stereo back on. Annoying. I didn't plan to get the
factory CD player anyhow as it's overpriced. However, the car they had on the
lot was everything else I wanted, so I took it with the CD player. At least
I don't have to worry about anyone trying to steal it.
- Lack of "tilt" feature on seats. I wish I could get the front of the
seat bottom to be up a little higher. I may look at shimming the
front of the seat up 1/4" or so eventually.
- little too much engine noise in the "usable rpm range", I have the GT 2.5
and most of the torque is above 2200 RPMs, it starts to get noisy above
3650, but it dosn't readline until 6500. I also notice more "nossle" or
"cylinder" noise with the front windows open while accelerating than most
cars. I think this is probably because most cars focus that noise out in
front of the car. (i.e. forward pointing cylinders in a v4 or v6) as opposed
to the Subaru's horizontally facing cylinders. I noticed the same thing on
a friends 2.2L '96 Outback wagon.
The things I like most about the Legacy are:
- great handling. Handles nearly as well or as well as the A4, at over $10k less
- better acceleration than the Accord at the same cost (i.e. 4cyl Accord)
- better traction (AWD) than the Accord at the same cost
- the front dash dosn't stick out into your legroom like it does in most
of todays "cabforward-esque" designs (like the Accord and all of Dodge's cars)
- deceptively huge trunkspace - I can ALMOST fit my 164cm (that's big) snowboard
completely in the trunk on a diagonal! A friend of mine was so surprised
at how large the trunk was he proceeded to climb into it.
- Vented front disc brakes (rare except for sports cars)
I test drove the following cars and had the following gripes/comments about
them:
* Accord 5sp EX 4dr 4cyl (approx $23k MSRP)
- v4 underpowered, v6 dosn't come in manual
- back of front seats have a lip which juts rearward at the
top which cuts into the legroom of long legged riders
- seats too close to the ground
- no split in rear seat folddown. Only the "center armrest hole"
opens for skiis to stick through. Convinent for skiiers,
but I don't think my snowboard would fit through the hole
so I'd have to have the whole back seat down.
- window switches located too rearward on armrest
- armrest slopes upward too much, uncomfortable to just rest
my whole left arm there
- side sway (soft ride, not sport ride)
- solid feeling interior and doors as is common for Honda
* Audi A4 (approx $35k MSRP)
- pricy (more than $10k more than my Legacy GT for the 2.8l Quattro)
- rear seat legroom and headroom inadequate (my head was flushly
planted against the ceiling in the rear seat... I'm 6'1")
* Jeep Grand Cherokee (it was used)
- drove like a truck, and I don't want to drive a truck :)
- lots of side to side juggling when the road is even mildly
uneven or even on a flat road at highway speeds
- sloppy automatic transmission (no manual available)
* Toyota Camry V6 (approx $22k MSRP)
- cheap build feel
- VERY hard to find a manual (nobody has them, but they do build them)
- huge/boatlike feel, lots of side to side sway (soft ride, not sport ride)
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ + jeske@chat.net